Do-Over – How it might still be done.

by: Grebner

Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 23:56:30 PM EDT

With each wasted opportunity, the options become narrower, but I think there’s still a possible method for a partial salvage of the mess in Michigan and Florida. 

The successive failures we’ve endured have not been the result of a lack of options, but the result of the MDP’s inability to discriminate between workable and unworkable plans.  Kicking the ball over to the Legislature was only the most recent foolish move.

What can be done?  First, we need to make a hard-headed assessment of the situation, and reject every alternative that requires broad concensus or which depends on obtaining approval from interests which have no reason to grant it.

In short, the MDP must be left out, and neither campaign can be given unilateral veto.  It can’t involve the Legislature, it can’t be subject to scrutiny by the courts, and it can’t depend on raising large amounts of money.All we can hope for is an objectively fair process, that reflects the attitude of Michigan Democrats.  By “objectively fair”, I mean it would ignore the special pleadings of each campaign and their respective sympathizers, who are prepared to proclaim any principle that seems likely to gain even one delegate for their side.  The standard should be that it falls within the range that reasonable people would agree seems more-or-less fair.  And it should cause Michigan’s delegation to more or less reflect the will of her voters.

So what am I proposing?

In a few words, I propose the DNC retain a respected polling firm and conduct a well-financed, objective survey, and use the results to allocate delegates.

In Florida, screening is comparatively simple:  restrict the sample to registered Democrats.  In Michigan, it’s going to be necessary to define a series of questions to winnow out the correct group.  Maybe they’d exclude people (like me) who voted Republican in January.  Maybe they’d initially ask people if they consider themselves Democrats.  The screening wouldn’t be perfect, but perfection isn’t a fair standard at this point.  The fact is that such screening questions are employed all the time in the polling industry, with good results.  Because there would be adequate lead time, I would have the polling firm conduct a pilot study first, so they could test alternatives and recommend the one they think worked best for the real survey.

There are lots of objections, but it’s so late the only alternative is to watch the train jump the track.  Here are the ones I can think of:

  • Who would conduct the poll?  I’d suggest Gallup, since they have an unassailable reputation, and also because they don’t work for any candidates.
  • How should the questions be phrased?  I’d let Gallup recommend the exact language, including the crucial screening questions.  If a choice must be made, I’d leave it to the leadership of the DNC Rules Committee and/or Howard Dean.  Is that perfectly fair?  No, but it’s the best we can do under the circumstances.
  • How would the delegates be awarded?  The method needs to be completely defined in advance, so there’s no room to finagle after the exact results are released.  I assume most of the delegates would be awarded according to the percentages within each CD, with a smaller pot assigned based on the statewide numbers, but it doesn’t really matter.  It could mirror the allocations already established by the MDP.
  • Wouldn’t a poll under-represent people who don’t have land-lines?  When I referred to a poll above, I didn’t specify that it would be a conventional, telephone-based poll.  Because adequate funds and time would be available, I would suggest it follow procedures similar to the US Census:  try one method, shift to a second, and then a third.  In this case, I would start with telephone interviewing, if that fails shift to in-person, and finally try First Class and then Express Mail.  I would continue until each selected voter has either been interviewed, has refused, or ten attempted contacts have failed – that’s a lot.  I would “weight” the results by CD, so each district receives as many “votes” as it is entitled to by the MDP’s existing delegate assignment.
  • Polls have large margins of errors.  Compared to what?  An election where one of the candidates wasn’t listed on the ballot?  Dividing the delegates exactly equally?  Nobody associated with the process so far, or with either of the campaigns, has any right to complain about the possibility of 5% random error.  I would conduct about 400 interviews per CD, or about 6000 statewide.  Random fluctuations in the sample should amount to a total of three or four delegates – pretty small potatoes compared to the schemes we’ve been hearing.
  • But are we going to leave out campaigning?  Should we run a process that has no role for media/ rallies/ mail/ signs?  This is the only point in this proposal where my demented genius really comes into play:  I would announce on April 1 that the poll will be conducted (say) May 30 – June 4, giving the two candidates lots of time to campaign in Michigan, trying to influence all the people who might later be randomly selected.   In effect, we would ALL be targetted by the two campaigns, because they won’t know which one-half percent of us will actually get to vote.
  • Where would the money come from?  Total cost would be under $300,000 – chickenfeed by the wasteful standards we’ve seen.  The DNC would be able to provide it, I’m sure.
  • How would the specific delegates be chosen?  I suppose the safest method would be to simply inform each campaign they have won XXX delegates and alternates, and tell them how many need to fall into each category, and let them select from their supporters.  If it were up to me, I would NOT seat any of the superdelegates, unless a campaign chose them, as punishment for their parts in bringing about the fiasco we’ve seen to date.  (A zany  alternative would be to offer the seats first to people interviewed in the survey – a genuine cross-section of Michigan Democrats.  It’d be fun, but probably unworkable.)
  • Wouldn’t Hillary complain that this is unfair because of X, and Barrack because of Y?  Of course they would but this proposal only needs the votes Dean controls on Rules, plus either of the campaigns.  Whichever campaign is guilty of the most outrageous game-playing gets left out when Gallup comes to ask for guidance, since a working majority won’t require their votes.  Dean really holds the whip hand here.
  • What right does the DNC have to impose its own solution?  Essentially, the DNC would be saying they got tired of waiting for the MDP to submit a proper plan under the national rules.  Because Michigan (and Florida) Democrats deserve to be represented in Denver, regardless of the incompetence of their state leaders, the DNC has adopted a stopgap measure.  If the MDP doesn’t like it, the solution is to submit a legal plan.  This is very similar to the DNC’s actions forty years ago in rejecting racially segregated delegations from the South.
  • Wouldn’t the public see this as unfair?  Compared to what – the present mess?  Actually, I think a fairly-run process, with Gallup playing a central role, would make a compelling story-line for the media and the voters.  It would be weird, but it would feel even-handed.

 Is there any chance for this proposal?  Well, no.  But I decided it was worth the effort to put it forward.


Comments

14 responses to “Do-Over – How it might still be done.”

  1. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    Sure, why not?
    It’s downright bizarre…but does give Michigan more influence than just splitting us 50-50.
    Here’s a thought: choose the polling firm who has the best overall average of predicting primaries and caucuses in 2008. It could be a kind of competition.

    For starters, though, let’s rule out Zogby and EPIC-MRA…

    “HAZEN S. PINGREE…He was the first to warn the people of the great danger threatened by powerful private corporations, and the first to awake to the great inequalities in taxation and to initiate steps for reforms. THE IDOL OF THE PEOPLE”

    by: Hazen Pingree @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 04:32:05 AM CDT

  2. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    A poll? If anything, I want my VOTE.
    Either from 1/15 or 50/50.
    by: Cole6015 @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:00:10 AM CDT

  3. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    worth considering
    though unorthodox, it addresses the issues of cost & logistics. It also cuts out the legislature and the MDP, two entities that haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory during this mess.
    Downside? It will be tough for the DNC to enforce future primary schedules if they cave on MI delegates… however those delegates are selected.

    by: kelster @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 06:54:33 AM CDT

  4. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    The MDP would REALLY hate this.
    I don’t think any state party would be happy about being pushed aside by the national party; Brewer et al. would squawk fiercely at the thought of being bypassed. Maybe the DNC should adopt fallback rules that automatically apply to any state that fails to pick a delegation within the established rules.
    Modeled, like all management, on child-rearing: “If you don’t clean your room, young lady, I’ll clean it for you. And you may not like the way I do it.”

    by: Grebner @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 10:38:30 AM CDT

  5. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    A toddler is one appropriate metaphor…
    this situation has me muttering:
    “Senatus bestia est; senatores, boni viri”

    by: memiller @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 15:18:29 PM CDT

  6. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    misses the point
    the primary shouldnt count. we were warned and we’ve been punished for breaking the rules that were agreed to. the real culprits are granholm and the legislature. i don’t believe they consulted the citizens and they certainly didn’t campaign on this. they just jumped on the bandwagon.
    i dont like the whole situation. i voted uncommitted last time around. i dont blame dean. i support the 50-state strategy.

    clinton said the votes shouldn’t count back when she was the favorite so i just can’t abide her comments these days. it is just pandering.

    obama’s camp could be doing a better job framing this and should throw clinton’s words back in her face on this. he is catching lots of flack on this and should just spell it out: MI and FL broke the rules, this goes to the root of where the democratic party wants to go in the future.

    so as much as i hate to say it, we have to take a bath on it. and if we don’t like it, take it up with state democrats. they won’t be getting xmas cards from me this year.

    gd

    by: gunboat d @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 08:25:47 AM CDT

  7. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    What about a Good Old Caucus?
    In 2004 we had a mail in and internet caucus. What would be son hard about that? Is that whole idea scuddled due to Team Clinton owning the Democratic establishment in this state, and Team Clinton not being big on caucuses in general? That is, at least when they lose them.
    by: Bluesman Johnson @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:13:00 AM CDT

  8. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    The problem with a 2004-style caucus
    …is that in 2004 we had only about 100,000 voters, and we still had lines and problems at many caucus sites. In 2004, the race was nearly over by the time Michigan voted – Dean was only a few days away from dropping out.
    In 2008, if the campaign is still going strong when we vote, and if the whole nomination seems to hinge on Michigan, there’s the danger of ten times as many people showing up. If that happens, at many caucus sites, there will simply be no place for people to park, there won’t be anywhere indoors for them to wait, and in many cases, the volunteers and site will become unavailable before everybody has a chance to vote.

    There’s a reason the State spends $12 million running an election – that’s what it costs to set up locations for a million people to vote in one day. And there’s a reason they spend many months getting ready – it takes that long to makes sure everything is in place.

    A caucus might have been workable, if the MDP had stuck to a plan and prepared for it. Trying to set one up now, under this time pressure, would be madness.

    by: Grebner @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 13:00:55 PM CDT

    1. Violet Avatar
      Violet

      Poll Tax
      Maybe we can do a poll tax and raise some money for the party. $10 bucks a pop. 500,000 voters equal $5 million dollars. I know it would never happen but its worth a thought.

      Proud member of the Whatley Posse
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
      by: Ann Tee @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 13:13:35 PM CDT
      [ Parent ]
      The Clinton Democrats want to spend (0.00 / 0)
      $12 millon on Michigan’s election. I’m sure that’d go a long way to solving most of the problems you suggest.

      West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
      by: philgoblue @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 13:41:50 PM CDT

  9. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    Sets a dangerous precedent.
    I understand your logic, and I understand that this is a Very Special Case®, but it still opens up a very, very disturbing can of worms.
    There’s already a running joke on both sides of the aisle about “why bother voting…why not just let the polls decide who wins?”. While I fully appreciate that this isn’t the same thing, it still has the appearance of that, and you can be certain that plenty of other states/parties/organizations would use this as an excuse to poll their way into office in the future.

    by: Brainwrap @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 15:00:23 PM CDT

  10. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    Please note that I never said this was a good idea.
    I only tried to explain that it was possible. I’m afraid we went wrong several years ago, when picking the leadership of the MDP. After that, all we’ve been doing is trying to make the best of bad situations.
    I completely agree that it would be a bad thing if this approach were adopted generally. But every path that leads from where we now stand is a bad choice. Maybe mine is the least bad?

    by: Grebner @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 15:39:04 PM CDT

    1. Violet Avatar
      Violet

      Hmmm…good point.
      Gee, this whole thing is kind of like invading Iraq at this point, no?
      If we stay, more people definitely will die. If we leave, more people may die. If we kind-of-sort-of stay, more people will die. The only winning move was not to invade in the first place.

      by: Brainwrap @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 15:58:19 PM CDT

  11. Violet Avatar
    Violet

    Not a bad idea…BUT
    Obama has already offerred Clinton a 50/50 split (and would allow the seating of her “supers”).
    Under your scenario, even a MOST advantageous result for Clinton might be 54%-46%.

    That kind of a result might net her around 10 delegates. (69-59 or so)

    Hard to imagine all that would be worth it– to net her 10 delegates.

    She’s better off going all the way to Denver and trying to get the delegation seated “as is”.

    Her ONLY chance is the “supers” overturning the credentials committee decision (favoring Obama), in her favor. Since, she obviously, cares nothing about tearing the party apart, I don’t see how an extra 10 delegates benefits her at this point.

    “Those who attempt to censor free speech by filtering the Internet, are… the… TRUE… “tiny cats” of cyberspace.”

    by: detroit tiger @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 16:59:36 PM CDT

    1. Violet Avatar
      Violet

      That kind of calculation is why the candidates can’t have a veto.
      Since this is literally a “zero-sum game”, one candidate or the other will object to every possible proposal. Looking for a solution they both support is foolish – it simply can’t exist.
      We need to ask ourselves what is reasonable, and then follow the path that shows us. Allowing a veto to both campaigns guarantees we won’t get out of the trap we’ve allowed leaders to build around us. If we want to get out, we need to escape that double-veto situation.

      by: Grebner @ Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 18:40:25 PM CDT

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